Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

It’s always an opinion though

Practically speaking I don't think characters and tulpas are the same thing experientially so I think it's a little ludicrous to directly compare them. But they are both thoughtforms and thus exactly the same mechanism.

I agree with Ranger. it’s not a discussion about what a tulpa is but a battle of trying to force each other to use their definition for the label

~~most tulpas fit imaginary friends 'definition~~

opinions are like tulpas

Imaginary friend tells me nothing

11:23 PM

It could mean character or tulpa

11:23 PM

The real context clue is whether the person thinks they're real or not.

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

opinions are like tulpas

“…i have none”?

2

Because that belief makes the thing happen (edited)

In my opinion it's more about attachment than belief. Belief itself won't make a character show (illusion of) independent agency.

I sometimes think my system is powered by sentimentality.

11:25 PM

Which is a pretty strong type of attachment, imo

Attachment?

Yeah, emotional attachment.

Can attachment form without belief?

I was about to say. Attachment is just an abstraction. Emotion is what powers suggestion.

Belief + Emotion = Suggestion

11:27 PM

The process is literally Emotion, therefore belief.

11:27 PM

Usually with a bunch of symbolism happening in between

proxi

Can attachment form without belief?

Maybe a little belief is needed too. But I'd say belief doesn't have to be very strong.

Beliefs don't have to be zealous to be strong

11:28 PM

Most beliefs are "givens"

I didn't have much faith in tulpamancy before I experienced tulpa talking back to me.

And not at all strongly expressed

11:28 PM

But difficult to budge

11:31 PM

Belief effects the efficacy of suggestion extremely. I think frankly you're taking a single data point and not realizing that those who have an easy time accepting beliefs are almost certainly rapidly more prone to responses, hallucinations, and the like.

11:31 PM

But suggestion is a long term process. It doesn't matter how strong your belief is if you apply it consistently enough. No one is completely unsuggestible.

11:32 PM

And once you get to the responses they build upon themselves

No one is completely unsuggestible.

I don't believe that. Yet.

Eh?

I'd say I really wanted Luna to be real back then. But that tulpamancy stuff was really fishy.

But... You're plural right?

How did I drag myself into all of this bullshit? :V

She is joking

1

11:33 PM

I got the joke dw Alex (edited)

1

wipes brow

I think you make good points Zen, sorry for derailing

I agree with Ranger. it’s not a discussion about what a tulpa is but a battle of trying to force each other to use their definition for the label

I was thinking it sounded like something he would say.

Have we actually seen anyone claim tulpas are entirely characters? Wasn't that Fede's extremely unpopular position?

Aside from Fede, I don't know anyone I can point too (do Asmask/JGC count on how they feel about most tulpas?). However, it's possible they didn't feel welcome in the community and fled. We knew some systems who believed tulpas were median and they didn't feel good about returning

I'd say if any belief is important, it's belief in your tulpa. Not in stuff that people claim about tulpas to be true.

Aren’t asmask and j pointing fingers they suspect other tulpas are not tulpas to their standard rather than calling characters tulpas?

Yes, when I say belief I don't mean some sort of particular abstraction. I mean literally that you feel and accept that they are real.

What are tulpas fulfilling their standards?

JGC seems to have a problem with fictives, if I recall. Amusingly I went and made a fictive immediately after that.

1

Parallel and amnesia barriers maybe? Honestly I feel like there's more to it than a given set of requirements

Zen

Yes, when I say belief I don't mean some sort of particular abstraction. I mean literally that you feel and accept that they are real.

I think you might be right. Although today my view of their "realness" is different, back then it might have been exactly about it.

And it turned out stronger, too.

Fictives are the best

If you make a tulpa from scratch, that's just a fictive of your OC.

1

Hence why tulpas can be basically whatever you want- the standards don't have to be consistent or even measurable.

Luna

What are tulpas fulfilling their standards?

Asmask thinks he can see if a tulpa is roleplaying host better than the host themselves

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

If you make a tulpa from scratch, that's just a fictive of your OC.

If you want to make a tulpa from scratch, forst you need to invent the universe

1

I thought real tulpas have free will™

Nothing is free

11:40 PM

11:41 PM

Oh wow i didnt expect you to get the reference alez

11:41 PM

Alex

Why not?

Even the market is not free, it's just slow

Nice reaction emojis

You underestimate my power

Luna

I thought real tulpas have free will™

Free will is definitely something that can be retracted...

11:42 PM

And it's a thing we do regularly for personal reasons.

11:42 PM

Though initially for science.

Zen

Free will is definitely something that can be retracted...

It's more like the system has free will, to me.

I think it's just that the majority of mancers just don't impose themselves usually because it feels sadbad. (edited)

I have heard many times that I am not a real tulpa since I have no free will.

What even is 'free will' tho, amirite?

Luna

I have heard many times that I am not a real tulpa since I have no free will.

What is it that you are doing right now, if not expressing your will?

11:43 PM

I can actively stifle the will of my tulpa or make him do something he is resisting. But he does have a will.

What is it that you are doing right now, if not expressing your will?

@Zen - jump Many things affect your will. You think what you do because of your previous experience etc. There is no such a thing as "free will".

Gods damn it now I have to catch up again

vixiUwU

Gods damn it now I have to catch up again

Alex made a joke noone got it but me; i made a joke noone got it but alex

Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈

No one is completely unsuggestible.

I don't believe that. Yet.

Don't worry, I got it

1

2

proxi

Alex made a joke noone got it but me; i made a joke noone got it but alex

story of our lives

Luna

What is it that you are doing right now, if not expressing your will?

@Zen - jump Many things affect your will. You think what you do because of your previous experience etc. There is no such a thing as "free will".

If that's your definition, sure. But then you've just argued the term into meaninglessness. Usually when describing will we are describing very basic intent and automative action. Both of which are observably real and distinct from how they operate in undeveloped characters, I think, relative to tulpas or hosts. (edited)

proxi

Asmask thinks he can see if a tulpa is roleplaying host better than the host themselves

What a coincidence, I can tell whether he is a narcissist better than he can lol

1

If that's your definition, sure. But then you've just argued the term into meaninglessness. Usually when describing will we are describing very basic intent and automative action. Both of which are observably real and distinct from how they operate in undeveloped characters, I think, relative to tulpas or hosts.

@Zen - jump I'd call it just having an agency.

11:48 PM

What a coincidence, I can tell whether he is a narcissist better than he can lol

@vixiUwU - jump You say that because you aren't a real tulpa

Never said I was

Agency and free-will are both fine terms for it.

Usually when describing will we are describing very basic intent and automative action. Both of which are observably real and distinct from how they operate in undeveloped characters, I think, relative to tulpas or hosts.

It certainly feels distinct. A little spooky, for us.

11:49 PM

There's a sense of presence/will involved.

I have also heard that real tulpa should have distinct opinion on religion, abortion, politics and economy

A headmate is a tulpa if asmasks and j say so (edited)

Seems legit.

11:52 PM

Why would we want to be tulpas anyway?

Tulpa typing too similar to host? Fake tulpa Tulpa typing too dofferently to host? Fake tulpa

Rhys has expressed a greater... kindness shall we say... toward religion than me. But in his defence where he comes from there is no question the supernatural is real. He has not straight up hardline joined a religion like whichever among JGC did - I think he's definable as an Agnostic Atheist at the moment, where I am Gnostic.

tax reasons

No, the more different, the more real, lol.

11:54 PM

The most real tulpa is a complete opposite of their host.

No, that’s anti-host

What a coincidence! Rhys is a su- Uh I mean. No Rhys is not meaningfully my opposite at all, no never.

11:55 PM

Not real... uhm.

proxi

A headmate is a tulpa if asmasks and j say so (edited)

Now I want to be a tulpa even less than I already did

If I get their approval I feel like I am failing in life

11:55 PM

The hilarious irony is both their systems seem pretty host-heavy

If host and anti-host ever meet...

1

There's definitely forms of explosions yes. (edited)

Rhys has expressed a greater... kindness shall we say... toward religion than me. But in his defence where he comes from there is no question the supernatural is real. He has not straight up hardline joined a religion like whichever among JGC did - I think he's definable as an Agnostic Atheist at the moment, where I am Gnostic.

@Zen - jump While I am militant atheist, I am not gnostic. I think being absolute sure is pretty irrational, in case of existence any kind of personal creator, of course, not characters from mythology.